Varvara?

[Aaron]

What was going on with Varvara after she left Jayden's room with Viktor?

[spolice88]

that one i think was kind of hinted too but not really specified. as far as i can tell she is messing around with viktor behind jatdens back. hence the heated argument between her and sveta. sveta is PISSED at varya.

[Aaron]

that's kind of what i thought, but i don't know if it's something viktor is doing like maybe drugging her up or something.

[spolice88]

i dont think its drugging so much as brainwashing and taking advantage of her in such a vulnerable state. he probably tells her that jayden will be sent home and that there is no reason to stay with him etc etc. when a girl is as emotionally distraught as varya is right now she is easily manipulated.

[Logan]

I'm of the same opinion, but that whole sub-plot irritated me just because I don't want to see Jayden hurt. I think he's better off without Varvara. She annoys me. :)

Oh, and I hope Viktor falls off a cliff. Onto spikes. Made of acid. And broken glass. In a salt dome. Full of bamboo shoots. And bugs. :D

[spolice88]

well then.

[spolice88]

dont hold back now logan, you'll hurt yourself.

[Dercol's Goatee]

I think without a doubt she is messing with Viktor. If it was a drugging up thing, she still would have visited jayden. As is, she is ashamed of herself, as she should be.

[spolice88]

i suspect that she is ahamed of herself to an extent, but she could also be extremely confused and her heart is being pulled apart. but she shouldnt be messing with viktor for sure...though i feel the blame lies with viktor on that one.

[Logan]

It takes two to tango.

Speaking of which, I watched Chuck vs The Tango the other night. Very fun episode. Love that show. :)

[spolice88]

it does take two to tango but when ne of the two is being brainwashed the tango itself becomes more of a paso doble where the man pulls the strings

[Logan]

Kind of like a marionette? Like pinnochio? :)

I'm not sold that she was brainwashed. I think she's just that weak-willed. She couldn't handle the fact that Jayden got hurt, didn't want to face the concept of being with him through that sort of hardship, and she turned to a guy who took advantage of the situation.

As I said before, I blame Viktor for the entire event, but Varvara has to take some responsibility for her actions. I've seen people bail out of marriages and relationships in real life with far weaker reasons than this. So my reading of the character is that she's not cut out for handling anything quite as difficult as what Jayden is going through, and Viktor used that knowledge against her to manipulate her into being with him.

I'm enjoying these conversations. Good characters, good plots. Keep it up!

[spolice88]

i can see that happening and i do feel that some is to blame on varvara, but until you are in that situation where the person you love could possibly die we cant really say anything. she is very weak willed, but shame on viktor for taking advantage of her.

[Logan]

Agreed.

Viktor is a gigantic... bad thing. :mad:

[spolice88]

true that.

[Scout07]

Kind of like a marionette? Like pinnochio? :)

I'm not sold that she was brainwashed. I think she's just that weak-willed. She couldn't handle the fact that Jayden got hurt, didn't want to face the concept of being with him through that sort of hardship, and she turned to a guy who took advantage of the situation.

As I said before, I blame Viktor for the entire event, but Varvara has to take some responsibility for her actions. I've seen people bail out of marriages and relationships in real life with far weaker reasons than this. So my reading of the character is that she's not cut out for handling anything quite as difficult as what Jayden is going through, and Viktor used that knowledge against her to manipulate her into being with him.

I'm enjoying these conversations. Good characters, good plots. Keep it up!

You know, just to put another spin on things, maybe Viktor "forcibly took advantage of" Varvara after they left the infirmary that first day, and she has not gone back to Jayden because she is embarrassed.

We all know that the Nightmen are vicious and have a "we get away with whatever" attitude, so it's not that far fetched that Viktor would do something like that.

[spolice88]

in the nightmen sense that is completely possible and i wouldnt put it past viktor. but think back to the way he talked to her when they initially discovered jayden. he was the one that pulled the trigger yet he playing the most concerned and at the hospital he convinced her that jayden seeing her the way she was wouldnt be good for her. he seems more about mind manipulation than force.

[Scout07]

in the nightmen sense that is completely possible and i wouldnt put it past viktor. but think back to the way he talked to her when they initially discovered jayden. he was the one that pulled the trigger yet he playing the most concerned and at the hospital he convinced her that jayden seeing her the way she was wouldnt be good for her. he seems more about mind manipulation than force.

I get all that. I just wanted to throw out an alternative to the ideas that had been put out there so far. My first reaction on reading that part of the book was very similar to what I've seen from everyone else in here. Varya couldn't take facing Jayden and his condition, Viktor offered an escape, and things progressed from there.

I just didn't want to jump on the "bash on Varya" bandwagon without throwing another possibity out there.

[spolice88]

lol very gentlemanly.

i guess just from a womans perspective i find a serious level of sympathy to varya but at the same time im also disgusted that she would readily turn to someone else than be strong enough to face the situation.

[Furrier678]

i dont think its drugging so much as brainwashing and taking advantage of her in such a vulnerable state. he probably tells her that jayden will be sent home and that there is no reason to stay with him etc etc. when a girl is as emotionally distraught as varya is right now she is easily manipulated.

Apparently easily manipulated into bed!

[Logan]

Apparently easily manipulated into bed!

GONG!

Nice! :)

[spolice88]

Apparently easily manipulated into bed!


fair enough. ;)


still, its pretty lousy of viktor either way to be diong this.

[Polyester-DK]

I still don't really get this. Why Viktor shot Jayden in the first place and what his purpose is with Varvarra. Cause I don't assume anybody thinks he did any of this because he loves Varvarra and wanted to be with her. So he is using her to get something, but what? If all he wanted was a girl to sleep with, surely he could find someone else where he didn't have to do something as risky as shooting a teammate.

As for Varvarra, I know how manipulative men can be, especially when you are most vulnerable. But really? Dumping your loyal and loving boyfriend just because he is in sickbay. I could maybe understand it a little bit later on when it looked like he would definitely be sent home. She could use Viktor as a way to get over Jayden who would be moved to the other side of earth. Make the transiton easier. It just seemed to happen way too soon, at a point where they didn't know much about his condition at all. Like she gave up a lot quicker than I think most women would have, and quicker than I thought she would have.

[spolice88]

hm, maybe i am wrong maybe i am not i dunno, but i honestly cantthink of a good solid reason for viktor to shoot jayden (by good i mean there even being a reason at all) other than wanting varya. plain and simple. remember he expressed an interest in her earlier in the book. with the nightmen its like what they want is what they get regardless of who or what they have to get rid of.


im not saying that varya isnt a dirty little tramp for ditching jayden, by all means she deserves anything that she gets for abandoning him. im just saying that she could be traumatized and the fact that jayden cant hold her and tell her its okay she may be desperate for someone else to do that.

though i agree that doesnt make it okay.

[Logan]

I'll have to re-read the book to search for a clear explanation of why Viktor did what he did.

If I had to guess right now, I'd say that Lee will probably address the reasoning later. I'm thinking ahead to what's going to happen when a Cyclopsian Jayden discovers it was Viktor who tried to kill him and corrupted his girl. I think that might be a friendly-fire incident.

"Aw, shucks, sorry there Viktor. I was aiming for the bakma. Hope we can reattach that arm..."

[spolice88]

now That, would be worth seeing. though im not sure if jayden is as rough around the edges for that. maybe once he finds out what has happened to hios varya, but he just isnt that hard hearted.

now becan on the other hand, i could see becan taking a stance for jayden.

though seeing jayden rip viktor apart......i wouldnt be opposed to that ;)

[Polyester-DK]

That's what I'm thinking too Logan. This is definitely something we haven't seen the end of. There are several unanswered questions and it all seems to be leading up to some kind of big battle in the next book. It should get really interesting.

Love that kind of storytelling where you don't just focus on one storyline at a time but throw in bits and pieces of other stories that keep you interested in what is comming up next.

[spolice88]

i have gone back and re-read hero and maybe i am just missing something but it doesnt seem that viktor had any other motive besides just wanting varya. plain and simple. remember the nightmen have a totally different mentality than the eden soldiers. they want what they want and they want it now. viktor just wanted varya and did what he had to to make her his.

[spolice88]

thought:
maybe viktor is more sinister than we are even making him out to be. lets face it, the fourteenth is a very....well, was a very close knit group. maybe by picking away at something other than the obvious (scott) he is subtly trying to crumble the fourteenth as it rebuilds. varya and jayden being together was important to the unit. it is causing more damage i think than they realize that varya and jayden are on the rocks even if jayden is unaware of it.