One question.....

[Betsy]

I haven't seen this addressed any place yet.....

Why aren't there any women soldiers?

[Logan]

You know, now that you mention it, I always see women as Medics.

Hmmm... weird. Maybe we'll see some more women in combat roles in the next book(s). I can almost guarantee it wasn't intentional, knowing how Lee is, but it is curious.

I was kind of curious as to why there weren't more people with Boston accents running around the EDEN bases. Lee's so good at accents, I think a stereotypical Boston-cliche character would be hilarious!

Ah well, maybe in a parallel-universe spin-off!

[Scout07]

Maybe the CO's just aren't comfortable using women in combat roles? I seem to remember Col. Lilan making a comment about how he didn't like that the two new medics in Falcon Platoon were both women.

I don't believe women are allowed to hold combat positions in our military, so Lee may have based it off of that as well.

[Colonel Young]

I would have to concur with the two above gentlemen. I do not believe their ommision was on purpose. As we have found out so far it is not up to the unit commander whom they get for personnel. So far we have only seen a small piece of EDENs forces through the story. There may be high ranking female military officers, as well as female who have been highly decorated. All we are seeing is what Scott has been exposed to in his short military career. For all we know the next unit he joins may be lead by a female, or involve a mixture of male and female soldiers as well as medics.

[Pewter Picaroon]

Because they belong in the kitchen!











Just joshin!

[Logan]

Because they belong in the kitchen! -/- Just joshin!

Hahaha! My dad used to mess with my mom about that all the time. Until she threatened to stop cooking, and from that point on he was quite amiable towards her. :)

[Betsy]

Because they belong in the kitchen!

Just joshin!
And pregnant?:p

[Ayrianth]

And pregnant?:p

Don't forget barefooted!

[spolice88]

Hey the quickest way to a man's heart is his stomach!!


Seriously I never really thought about it until just now. But here is another interesting point.


There are no NightWOMEN.



Hm?????

[Logan]

Maybe there are Nightwomen, but they wear big male armor and talk in deep voices and... okay, maybe not.

[spolice88]

i just think that its odd is all...do they think that woman are not capable of murder? i am not saying that i want there to be more Nightmen but still. the lack or women (in general) is very conspicious. maybe they have a different purpose than on the front lines?

[Colonel Young]

I would expect there are many women who are Nigthmen. Thoor would be a fool to not utilize them for great good of the Nightmen. I would expect the women are the unknown, possibly part of the secert wing of the Nightmen. So yeah, they're there you just don't see them. I'd be willing to bet you will see them before the series ends, but at present they're in hiding.

[GordElner]

I suspect there are female combat soldiers; however, most probably have the sense to not go head first into bullets and enemy ranks ;)

[spolice88]

nicely put gordy.

[Logan]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there are female soldiers. Welcome to the board, Gord.

[Scout07]

Welcome GordE! Glad to add another fan to the community here.

As far as female soldiers go, I'd stand beside what I said earlier. The majority of them are probably going to be medics and support staff. Not to say that they couldn't participate in a battle should the need arise, but I don't think you'll see that be their primary role.

As far as women being in the Nightmen, I could definetly see some being in the more secret group. I mean, let's be real here, by their nature they would be a perfect fit for that kind of job. Only speaking from personal experience here.

Present company excluded ladies. ;)

[spolice88]

i think that they play a larger part than we anticipate. i mean come on guys, get about a thousand woman PMSing with no chocolate available, call them fat and watch the enemy fall!!!! HA!!


i seriously think that they do play a better part though.

[Pariah Deviant]

maybe they have a cheerleading squad for nightman pep rallies

[Pewter Picaroon]

The other soldiers have to eat right?

[Logan]

The other soldiers have to eat right?

HAHAHAHAHA!!

I got it. :)

[spolice88]

keep it PG boys.

[Colonel Young]

keep it PG boys.

His comment was PG, just a bit chauvinistic. He was referring to them cooking, there place being in the kitchen. Is that stereotype that old, that it has begun to fade away into Bolivian, that's Ludacris.

[greenfire710]

I am only half way thru Outlaw Trigger but isnt the new scout a woman?

[Logan]

Yeah, she is. They were referring to Soldiers, which are trained differently than Scouts.

Also, I can't remember exactly what day Outlaw Trigger came out, but I believe the question was raised before anyone knew Esther. I could be wrong. Anyone out there analytical enough to see if that's right?

[Scout07]

Not entirely sure about that Logan. I started my OT thread on 10/16, this thread was started on 10/08. I'm sure that there were a few people that got ahold of the book before I did, so Betsy could have read it before she started this thread.

By the way, welcome to the board greenfire.

[Logan]

Not entirely sure about that Logan. I started my OT thread on 10/16, this thread was started on 10/08. I'm sure that there were a few people that got ahold of the book before I did, so Betsy could have read it before she started this thread.

By the way, welcome to the board greenfire.

Ah, see, Scout's probably right.

Then I'm not sure. Thanks for the heads-up, Scout!

[Scout07]

Glad I could help! :)

[spolice88]

maybe woman are only trained as scouts???

[Logan]

I doubt it. I really think we'll see a woman soldier eventually. Then we'll all go, "Oh, there she is!" and have a tall glass of water to quench our metaphorical thirsts.

I'm not sure what that meant. I'm a little delusional.

[KrytMagnum]

Common reasons we don't even currently have women in combat positions or special forces positions:

First, it is commonly believed that if a woman is seen to be injured in someway, it will effect the males around her. Causing a drop in combat effectiveness. At the same time, scout/sniper/medic positions are considered to be farther from the "grunt with the gun" so women are considered as it is a less "dangerous" job.

Secondly, and this is for special forces: Women have a different set of smells than men, which is easy to train dogs to detect. Most military forces in the world are all men, making it impossible to sneak a woman past guard dogs that are used to the scent of a man but not that of a woman.

As for the Nighmen, Thoor is old school Russian. So there are no Nightwomen, cause Thoor is old school.

:)

[ICantBelieveItsNotTravis]

While I agree that Thoor is old school, and probably not a fan of nightwomen, I think there are a couple of points to consider (and I may be way off base):

First, the suits of armor worn by nightmen cover the whole body (including the face) which would mean there would probably be a way to distort the person's voice -- keeping the nightman's identity secret.

Second, you would need someone as thin as a woman to fit into those suits of armor just recently pictured on the site.

[Logan]

Agreed, those are thin people-suits.

Although maybe every suit is different? Maybe there are morbidly obese nightmen suits?

That'd scare the tar out of me, I say I say.

[ICantBelieveItsNotTravis]

Agreed, those are thin people-suits.

Although maybe every suit is different? Maybe there are morbidly obese nightmen suits?

That'd scare the tar out of me, I say I say.
I would think that the morbidly obese nightmen suits would have to have much larger fulcrum horns... it would just look bad if a really huge nightman had these relatively tiny horns. Seems like he would be made fun of by the other nightmen.

[Logan]

Agreed. We want massively obese nightmen with huge horns!

[Colonel Young]

Agreed. We want massively obese nightmen with huge horns!

You are a strange man Logan.

[ICantBelieveItsNotTravis]

I hate to argue with myself, but it might be possible that your fulcrum horns get smaller as your armor waist to height proportion increases. That would motivate nightman fulcrum elites to be extraordinarily skinny -- nightwomen dig huge fulcrum horns.

[Logan]

You are a strange man Logan.


Agreed. I'm just surprised my wife has hung around as long as she has. :D

So... uh... back on target:

I don't see why Thoor would discriminate against woman. If a woman is capable of being as heartless as a Nightman and as capable of combat as one, then I would suppose she'd be a shoe-in. Especially as an Eidolan (sp?), considering people would probably suspect a woman less as a possible Nightman spy.

[Dentatus]

Perhaps one reason women don't feature more in combat roles is that the author is more of a traditionalist, and instinctively doesn't place them in that position. Has little to do with in-book logic.

I understand woman can kill, the need for female characters, that there are exceptions to the basic nurture/female type, etc, etc, but I think it runs cross-grain to some deep perceptions.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing. In fact, I empathize and agree. It was quite a mental hurdle to put a female character in my own work.

Just my .02