Lee Stephen is the man! *Outlaw Trigger Spoilers Included

[Scout07]

I received Outlaw Trigger Monday night (thanks for signing Lee!) and I immediately called my boss to let him know I would not be able to make it to work today. I wanted to start reading immediately, but knew that if I did, I would not be going to sleep. At all. So i woke up this morning and picked up the book, and did not move from my chair all day. This book was absolutely amazing!

Seeing the dark side of Remington serves to remind us that everyone has a dark side, no matter how "together" we seem to be. And as several characters mentioned in the book, Scotts reaction to Nicole's murder mirrors what I think many of us would want to do.

I like all of the possibilities that this story line sets up for the future books. Hinting at Sveta's return at the end was a good touch as well. It will be interesting to see how the relationships in the 14th will continue now that Scott is a Nightman. But Max's reaction to the whole situation suprised me, after you take into account their previous relationship.

Lee, once again, amazing job. I truly couldn't put it down. Now I can't wait for Hero!

[Logan]

Agreed. We'll talk more about specifics later, as more people finish the book, but man, what an excellent character study.

Kudos!

[Dercol's Goatee]

I finished it today. truly amazing follow up to DoD, and a different tone in general. Every person has a flaw, and up until OT, we had yet to see Scott's. I also like what is shaping up in EDEN Command...

[Scout07]

What I really liked about OT was that Lee took a pretty common theme (Scott's loss and the subsequent revenge) and was able to keep me hooked with the whole thing. I've read alot of books where the main character is pursuing the revenge angle, and some of them tend to fall flat. Lee wrote this one so well, you could almost feel the emotions coming off the page.

I also liked the very end where Lee set it up to bring back one of DoD's characters for the next book. Interested to see what develops there.

Also, it'll be interesting to see what Scott does to get out of his current situation that OT left him in.

[Pewter Picaroon]

...Lee wrote this one so well, you could almost feel the emotions coming off the page...

I couldn't say it any better. That is exactly what I was thinking. I got so caught up in the moment I found my facial expressions matching the feelings - if it was an angry moment, I was furrowing my brows; if it was an emotional moment, I was getting emotional.

Awesome.

[Polyester-DK]

Just finished the book and I love it at least as much as DOD. So many things going on towards the end of book that leaves unanswered questions.

What rank does Oleg have among the Nightmen? And is he the only one working undercover?

Is Archer one of Thoor's men or is he representing a new group that we haven't heard of yet.

Are there any kind of contact between some humans and some aliens (a single phrase from the beginning of the book stating something about the Bakma always seeming scared hasn't really left my mind since. Could some of the alien have been called and maybe even controlled by human? There still doesn't seem to be any kind of real evidence as to why they are even attacking earth?)

How will Scott respond now? We know he is supposed to be the hero for several more books but the Scott we knew from DOD is probably long gone.

I'm very glad to read that Sveta will be comming back. Funny actually, in DOD she was the female character that I felt was the most like me. And as I read the beginning of that last chapter, before I had any clue who the woman was, part of the description again made me think that that sounded like me. And then I realized it was her.

Lee, you better get back in the writing mood. I can't wait a year to read the next book.

[Pewter Picaroon]

Just finished the book and I love it at least as much as DOD. So many things going on towards the end of book that leaves unanswered questions.

What rank does Oleg have among the Nightmen? And is he the only one working undercover?

Is Archer one of Thoor's men or is he representing a new group that we haven't heard of yet.

Are there any kind of contact between some humans and some aliens (a single phrase from the beginning of the book stating something about the Bakma always seeming scared hasn't really left my mind since. Could some of the alien have been called and maybe even controlled by human? There still doesn't seem to be any kind of real evidence as to why they are even attacking earth?)

How will Scott respond now? We know he is supposed to be the hero for several more books but the Scott we knew from DOD is probably long gone.

I'm very glad to read that Sveta will be comming back. Funny actually, in DOD she was the female character that I felt was the most like me. And as I read the beginning of that last chapter, before I had any clue who the woman was, part of the description again made me think that that sounded like me. And then I realized it was her.

Lee, you better get back in the writing mood. I can't wait a year to read the next book.

Oleg is an eidolon. So, there's three levels of Nightmen - slayer, fulcrum, and eidolon and I believe if there were rankings it would be in that order from lowest to highest. Though, it was described that the fulcrum were the 'elite' so I could be wrong.

Archer is definitely up to no good!

After reading OT, I definitely think human/alien contact is extremely possible. I think that's one of the best things about this series in regards to sci fi. Before I continue, know that when I say 'other sci-fi stories', I'm only referring to TV and movies because I just haven't read much. One of the greatest things I read from Dod was the idea that aliens had 'problems' and 'restrictions' just like humans - money, technology, etc. That one of the reasons they don't just take over Earth is because it's not financially feasible. I've never thought of that concept before. It always is like - aliens come to invade with an unmeasurable amount of capabilities and nothing can hold them back (except for Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum).

So, with that in mind, it leaves the possibility that humans are working hand in hand with one or more of the alien races (example: Thoor and the nightmen with the Bakma). When I read your question, I thought, "Hm... it is possible that Thoor is using or involved with the Bakma to weed out the EDEN soldiers (as EDEN command figured out).

And on the same note of us not knowing the aliens intentions, I love that we are still trying to figure that out, but that there's still so much more occupying my thoughts (plenty of conflicts going on in the story).

And as far as your last note on Scott. I don't know if I'm surprised at how he took his fiannce's death, but for a moment I thought it could end differently. When he was in his room clutching the paper with the name on it, there was that moment (top half of page 273) were I thought he might just not open it. Seemed like as he was crying out, he might turn for the better. But of course, as soon as he opened it... you know the rest.

Those are all my opinions on your questions. Good ones by the way. Hope it sparks more convo!

[Polyester-DK]

There are definately plenty of things to talk about in the books at this point. I haven't really taken notes when going through them so I have probably missed or forgotten a ton of information. But I'm soon going to start going through them chapter by chapter and take notes and create files with information about all the characters, alien, possible conspiracy theories and so on. It is probably going to take months though. I'll be starting some new threads along the way.

[Logan]

One of my favorite parts in the book occurred near the beginning and wasn't touched on much more, but it whet my appetite: the conversation with the Ithini in containment.

I want more. Mmmm...

As far as Scott goes, I hope he pulls out of the darkness spiral, but I'm glad it happened. He was almost untouchable in his purity before. Now he's dramatically human, and he'll be even more wise because of the range he's been through. He's been on the golden end of morality, and now he's been in the darkness. Should make for some very interesting character development.

Plus, beginning next book, we may see a more ruthless Scott. I know I love to see characters unleash their dark-side every so often, as long as I know they'll be coming back to the light. :)

As for Archer, he's manipulating the council like they're children and he's got candy. The dialogue and interactions in the Judge's chambers make me smile, because it's so well put together. Archer swept that room like a tornado and everyone is caught up in his wake. Pretty amusing.

Although I hope he pushes Leonid too far; I want to see Leonid beat the absolute snot out of him one day. :)

[Thanas]

One of my favorite parts in the book occurred near the beginning and wasn't touched on much more, but it whet my appetite: the conversation with the Ithini in containment.


You know. I wonder if Archer isn't an Alien Infiltrator. Wouldn't really surprise me if the aliens had some way of placing spies into EDEN Command. I mean, Archer is almost a little TO good at his job.

[Logan]

I thought about that too, Thanas. As 'human' as these aliens are, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility.

[Sveta81]

My initial thoughts in reading that Archer has a vendetta against Thoor. Maybe someone he was close to fell prey to the Murder Rule just as Scott? Except they may not have been after Archer as they were Scott.

I was impressed with Thoors insight into knowing that the only way that Scott would ever kill is if he lost that which he loved most. HATED that they killed Nicole, but I do see the point. (No wonder how many times I tell you Lee that I'm mad... I do see the point! :) )

Tatical combat seems to be a new theme here. One I like! It's awesome to see the different layers of this war. Yes there will always be the blow em up shoot em, climb a tree so you can blow off their head aspect to it, but it's refreshing to see the mind games too. I think that this Archer/Judge Council thing is just one more way of exposing the tatical side of EDEN.

[Furrier678]

My initial thoughts in reading that Archer has a vendetta against Thoor. Maybe someone he was close to fell prey to the Murder Rule just as Scott? Except they may not have been after Archer as they were Scott.

I was impressed with Thoors insight into knowing that the only way that Scott would ever kill is if he lost that which he loved most. HATED that they killed Nicole, but I do see the point. (No wonder how many times I tell you Lee that I'm mad... I do see the point! :) )

Tatical combat seems to be a new theme here. One I like! It's awesome to see the different layers of this war. Yes there will always be the blow em up shoot em, climb a tree so you can blow off their head aspect to it, but it's refreshing to see the mind games too. I think that this Archer/Judge Council thing is just one more way of exposing the tatical side of EDEN.

I also was quite upset with her death! However, by the time I finished the book I had come to grudgingly accept it. :( In the first book, I feel like you only get to know Nicole through Scott and how he sees her. I think in the second book she becomes a little more fleshed-out. The reader sees that she isn't this perfect person like Scott sees her as. She's definitely dealing with emotional issues. She seems troubled and a bit restless. The distance from Scott seems to be eating at her, and she thinks that eloping will settle some of her worries and fears and solve her problems. I think that reading that conversation between she and Scott makes it even more sad when she dies. Thoor is the devil!

[Logan]

On the little tid-bit regarding Archer and Thoor, anyone else think its possible that Archer and Thoor have a more personal background together? Not romantic, you goobers, but something along the line of the Murder Rule (as Sveta mentioned) or something else in regards to the Nightmen. Maybe Archer idolized Thoor at some point and Thoor snubbed him. Maybe Archer's parents and family were destroyed by Thoor and he's out to get him.

I don't know what's up with Archer, but its obvious he's got it out for Thoor, or maybe just something Thoor represents. Regardless, there's got to be a massive background to those two that we'll discover later.

[Scout07]

On the little tid-bit regarding Archer and Thoor, anyone else think its possible that Archer and Thoor have a more personal background together? Not romantic, you goobers, but something along the line of the Murder Rule (as Sveta mentioned) or something else in regards to the Nightmen. Maybe Archer idolized Thoor at some point and Thoor snubbed him. Maybe Archer's parents and family were destroyed by Thoor and he's out to get him.

I don't know what's up with Archer, but its obvious he's got it out for Thoor, or maybe just something Thoor represents. Regardless, there's got to be a massive background to those two that we'll discover later.

Judging from alot of the posts here, I think most everybody is agreed that Archer is one of the "bad guys". I'm intrigued by the theories surrounding the relationship between Archer and Thoor, nut I'm not sure if I can connect the dots there. I'm more inclined to see this playing out with Thoor being the sacrificial lamb that vaults Archer into control of the council. Someone is setting Thoor up for a fall to put Archer in a place of control.

[Scout07]

You know. I wonder if Archer isn't an Alien Infiltrator. Wouldn't really surprise me if the aliens had some way of placing spies into EDEN Command. I mean, Archer is almost a little TO good at his job.

I see what your saying here, but at this point I'm slightly more inclined to think that someone within Eden Command, or possibly even an as-yet unknown organization is using the aliens to further their own plans.

[spolice88]

While I am not sure I would label Archer as a bad guy I wont label him as someone on our side. He is clearly gunning for Thoor (which scores him big points in my book), but the fact remains this: how did He stumble on something as huge as the situation in Novosibirsk and NO ONE else did? I mean there are clearly some smart cookies on the EDEN command so why is it that no one spotted this before? I think that Archer is the pawn (an evil pawn but a pawn nonetheless) and someone is pulling the strings through him.

Now as far as Thoor being the "sacrificial lamb" I dont buy it for a second. Even if they do get a firmer hold on the reins for him, Thoor is going to do waht he wants when he wants and to heck with everyone else. He may let them think they have control but Thoor is far more sinister than they seem to comprehend. He is also much smarter. He was able to figure out Remmy and his weaknesses quicker than we did. While I cried my eyes out when they killed Nicole you had to admit that something like that was bound to happen to Remmy. When he jumped for Sveta that was practically a neon sign saying "HI THOOR. LOOK AT ME." though I still love Remmy for it.

[Logan]

Agreed, Spolice. Thoor is much smarter and more dangerous than Command thinks. Well, maybe not all of Command. Leonid seems to understand what Thoor is capable of.

[spolice88]

i think that Leonid is going to be the only one that really knows what archer is up to. i think that Leonid will be the only judge that wont get corrupt and will be the one that ultimately saves the eden command. he knows that archer is not as good as everyone thinks he is.

[Becan]

A couple of points I'm mulling over...

1) I see the eidolon's as the special forces of the Nightmen. They're not in the traditional chain of command and operate independant of the unit.

The fulcrum elites are the best of the best (eidolons aside) of the unit.

2) I see Archer and Thoor as partners. I see the investigation only solidifying the Nightmen, and Thoor being absolved of wrong doing. Besides, with the judges THERE, in person, who's to stop them from being held captive by Thoor? Other than Remmy & co?

OK, I'm done spitballing...

[spolice88]

i think you are right about them being partners and them holding judges captive. thoor has been doing things his way for too long to let the judges take hold now. Maybe Archer was planted there by Thoor?

[Becan]

i think you are right about them being partners and them holding judges captive. thoor has been doing things his way for too long to let the judges take hold now. Maybe Archer was planted there by Thoor?

Very possibly.

I just like how the inference can be made, and Lee's got us thinking, wondering and plotting already.

When he off'ed Nicole, it turned the novel upside down for me. Scott's entrance into the Nightmen was merely brilliant by Lee.

I can't wait to see where it leads next.

[Logan]

Good concept on Thoor only being strengthened by the audit/investigation. I think that'd be a good plotline.

By the way, anyone have any clue what the title of the book means? Outlaw Trigger? I guess because Rem isn't playing by the rules now?

[spolice88]

ooooh nice. remember when he basically told clarke to beat it and he is doing what he wants? first step in the direction of an outlaw is defying the rules.


also, arent the nightmen considered "outlaws" by the rest of the soldiers. now remmy is one!!!

[Scout07]

I just hope we don;t start seeing an immediate turn-around in Scott. AS much as everyone likes to cheer for the good guy to win, lets face it, we all get tired of every story have a nice clean ending where the good guy wins and rides of into the sunset with the girl. Once in a while, we like to see the bad guys come out on top, if for no other reason than we get to cheer for the good guy some more. I would like to see the "bad" Scott hang around for a while. It's an interesting thread that I think has a lot more play available in it.

[spolice88]

i dont neccesarily consider scott a "bad guy" at this point. a dangerous guy absolutely and i agree with you. he needs to dabble in the darker world of the war for a while, maybe if only to have an epiphany of some sort. i think that scott can move up in the eden command and eventually help to win this war but he has to know everything that he would be confronted with...and i dont mean with the aliens. and considering his girl was murdered i dont think he will be riding off into the sunset with the girl any time soon but i do get what your saying. it woud be a nice change to have something to mull over instead of the same old routine. i dont think he will ever go back to his old Remmy self, but i refuse to believe he is lost forever. going along with what you said under the "nightmen" post scout07, i think he will get sucked into the power of it for a while.

[Logan]

I'm looking forward to, as spolice said, the "dangerous" Scott. I just want to see him put all that hand-to-hand training with Yuri to work. :)

[spolice88]

it will be interesting to say the least to see how remmy reacts in war situations now. initially he was running with faith and going with what he felt was right, now he has the corruption of the nightmen on his side. its going to be interesting to see if he runs with faith or the nightmen.

[Logan]

its going to be interesting to see if he runs with faith or the nightmen.

Oooh, what if he runs on faith IN the Nightmen? :)

[spolice88]

oooh....do you think that would last?

[Logan]

All my calculations show that it would probably last 12.04 minutes.

That's my scientific approximation.

No more than 12.08.

[spolice88]

ah. i assume much research went into this finding?

[Logan]

So much research it hurt my brains. All of them. :)

[Scout07]

As far as the whole fighting "with faith IN the Nightmen", I don't think so. I think at the end of the book, he's disgusted with himself at what he's become, and wants no part of it. But he can't find his own way out.

I think he'll come to accept (not like necessarily, but grudgingly accept) what he's become, and continue fighting. He'll find himself in a rather dark place that he can't escape from, so he'll just press on as best as he can, alone.

For now....

[Scout07]

You know, something that I was thinking about as I read the Nightman thread in the Freetalk forum...

What if Thoor wanted to recruit Scott to groom him as his eventual replacement? Spolice88 got me thinking about it when she was talking about chopping off the head of the snake and leaving the body to die. Maybe Thoor saw Scott as someone who could replace him when/if something happens to him? We know that Thoor values him highly based on his comments toward the end of OT.

Just think, Scott with an entire army under his command...just a thought.

[Pewter Picaroon]

You think he could have just invited Scott to lunch and just asked him? Nooo.... he's got to be difficult about it.

[Logan]

Hahahaha!

Ever think about Thoor as a child? He was probably so melodramatic.

Mommy greets him at age seven: "Ignatius, baby, how was school today? Did you learn anything?"

"The fools! They dare to try and teach me! They will rue the day! All who oppose me will be eradicated!"

Mommy frowns. "Iggy, you're never going to make friends like that. Now be nice and learn to share."

Come to think of it, Stewie from Family Guy is now what I picture when I think of a baby Thoor. His mom would be so proud. :)

[Pewter Picaroon]

Ha!

[Scout07]

Come to think of it, Stewie from Family Guy is now what I picture when I think of a baby Thoor. His mom would be so proud. :)

I will never be able to watch that show again without thinking of the Epic series!

[spolice88]

reel it in a little guys. i dont know if thoor making scott his eventualy replacement would be a wise idea. i mean yes thoor obviously holds scott in high regards after watching his performances....and now that i think about it i have a sneaking suspicion that scott, david, becan and jay were shipped off to Novosibirsk because THOOR requested it. i mean if you need back up why only send four soliders???

any way, i still think it would be a risky move on thoor's part. he would be instilling his confidence (not faith. thoor clearly doesnt believe in faith) in someone who hates everything that thoor stands for and openly expresses it, and who can be a loose cannon when his emotions arent kept in check. if thoor is grooming scott to be his replacement, he is gambling on the fact that scott wont "snap out of it" and destroy the nightmen once and for all.

then again if he succeeds and remmy cant get out of his funk and stays a nightman forever...

[Scout07]

All very good points. I'm sure I'm reaching with this one, it was just a thought that occured to me as I was reading through all the threads here.

The more likely possibility is that Thoor just gets some perverse pleasure out of breaking someone down. Especially when that someone is the Golden Lion.

[Colonel Young]

So far we have no back story on Thoor's climb to power within the Darkmen. He may have at one time been like Scott, until he himself was recruited and converted. Thoor wasn't a Golden Lion, at least that we know of, but he may still have been the wild card that Remmy has been in the series. I doubt that Remmy is his replacement, I'd be more than will to bet it was his way of sticking it to Eden. On top of killing their troops, he took their Golden Lion, the new kid who's a rising start within the ranks and someone they had high hopes for. Now, those hopes are crushed, the next Klaus Faerber(sp?) has been tainted, and Thoor can claim 100% responseablitity. Remember, at the end of OT Eden command had no knowledge of this occuring, it'll be a major issue in the next book.

[spolice88]

So far we have no back story on Thoor's climb to power within the Darkmen. He may have at one time been like Scott, until he himself was recruited and converted. Thoor wasn't a Golden Lion, at least that we know of, but he may still have been the wild card that Remmy has been in the series. I doubt that Remmy is his replacement, I'd be more than will to bet it was his way of sticking it to Eden. On top of killing their troops, he took their Golden Lion, the new kid who's a rising start within the ranks and someone they had high hopes for. Now, those hopes are crushed, the next Klaus Faerber(sp?) has been tainted, and Thoor can claim 100% responseablitity. Remember, at the end of OT Eden command had no knowledge of this occuring, it'll be a major issue in the next book.

It is NIGHTMEN colonel. dont get sloppy on us now. in any case you are right about having nothing to back the story, but we dont have anything to go against it either now do we? that is something that will just have to play out.

i dont know about "sticking it to Eden". i mean yes it obviously tickles his pickle (FOCUS) that he can screw with Eden whenever he wants, but he is concerned about one thing. about advancing his nightmen and with someone as powerful and influential as scott he can accomplish that much faster. that is if someone cant drag scott back to reality, which will take some doing. Thoor has the world in the palm of his hand right now and all he has to do is mold it to fit what he wants.